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Published on: 4/18/1996
Last Visited: 3/7/2001
Please proceed , Mr. Jürgens.
Mr. Ralf Jürgens , Project Coordinator , Legal and Ethical Issues , HIV/AIDS Legal Network & Canadian AIDS Society : Honourable senators , I should like to thank you for allowing me to make this presentation on behalf of the Canadian HIV/AIDS Legal Network and the Canadian AIDS Society.This is a summary of a larger submission.In this presentation , I will outline how Canadian drug laws and policies impact on the spread of HIV/AIDS and other diseases such as hepatitis B and C. I will provide some information about the Canadian HIV/AIDS Legal Network and the Canadian AIDS Society and , in particular , about the activities of the two organizations in the area of drug use.I will then summarize the results of phase one of a joint project on legal and ethical issues raised by HIV/AIDS that started in January of 1995 and that is still ongoing.As part of that project , I was able to meet with public health officials , representatives of provincial ministries of health , the Canadian Bar Association , people living with HIV and AIDS and many people working in HIV/AIDS service organizations across Canada.Over 60 of the individuals and organizations I met with expressed concern about the impact of Canadian drug laws and policies on the spread of HIV.I undertook a literature review as part of the project.
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Mr. Jürgens : You are talking about the urinalysis program which has been instituted in federal institutions.In effect , one of the main concerns when that program was instituted was that prisoners would switch from the relatively harmless drug cannabis to heroin and cocaine , drugs which stay in the blood for shorter periods of time and are thus less detectable.
I have spoken to many prisoners in Canadian prisons as part of my work both as project co-ordinator of the expert committee on AIDS in prisons and then as part of my present project.Prisoners have confirmed that that is indeed what is happening.They tell me that , yes , they are smart enough to know that cocaine and heroin are detectable for shorter periods of time.They do not want to run the risk of being detected and that , yes , they switched to the more harmful drugs.
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Mr. Jürgens : Yes , there are sanctions for those detected as having used a drug.
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Mr. Jürgens : There is , as you mentioned , the human rights argument , but there are also practical arguments why it is not necessary and why it could even be counter-productive to institute mandatory testing programs.The major issue is that it would create a false sense of security in institutions.The tests which are available only detect the presence of antibodies to the virus which were present about six months before time of testing.You could never really know and be sure that all people who tested negative are , indeed , negative at that time.
Also , it would automatically mean that all prisoners with HIV would have to be segregated.We are talking here about segregating hundreds of people who are healthy and where there is no reason to be segregated.
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Mr. Jürgens : Yes , that is the same.
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Mr. Jürgens : The argument is often made that people should be tested so that other people can know who is and who is not infected so that people can be protected from getting infected.Inside prisons , as outside prisons , that argument is flawed for many reasons.
I was trying to point out that , instead of advocating for mandatory testing which will not increase the security , we need to make available to prisoners the same means , such as condoms , bleach and clean needles , which are available to people outside of prisons through government.
programs funded to prevent the spread of HIV.We know that drug use is happening in prisons and we cannot prevent that drug use.
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Mr. Jürgens : I am sorry , I could not hear that question.
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Mr. Jürgens : Many drug users go into prisons at various times of their lives.They actually go in and out of prison.They usually are given short sentences but they will continue using drugs once they are released and will end up returning to prison.They will be released again and will go to prison again until , at some point in their lives , they stop using drugs and stop having any contact with the criminal system.But , as I said , it is really a continuous cycle of people going in and out of the prison system.
( French follows\Sen.
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Mr. Jürgens : I think it is a very pragmatic concept.We realize we cannot get rid of drug use.There are many reasons why people use drugs.Social issues are contributing factors.Thus , the approach should be to reduce the harms derived from drug use rather than continue what we have done for so many years now , which has obviously failed.
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Mr. Jürgens : Yes , that is what I am talking about.It relates to all the offences that people who use drugs typically engage in because the drugs are expensive.
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Mr. Jürgens : No , the suggestion is not that those acts not be criminal.There are several suggestions in the paper , and they are backed by research.The argument is that many drug-related crimes are not the result of drug use ; rather , they are the result of existing drug laws because the drugs are prohibited and people have to pay a lot of money in order to get them.They have to get them in dark corners , and they have to deal with criminals in order to obtain them ; therefore , people end up committing acquisitive crime.The argument is that by decriminalizing the use of small quantities of drugs or the possession thereof , some of this crime would be reduced.That fact has been proven in other countries where such models have already been tried.
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Mr. Jürgens : That is definitely not what we are saying.A sentence on page 8 of the appendix summarizes our point.It reads as follows :.
It has been concluded that people who use illicit drugs and do not hurt anyone are not the state's concern ; that if somebody uses illicit drugs and ends up hurting himself or herself , he or she needs help , and not criminal sanctions ; that if other people are hurt , punishment should follow not for the use of the drug itself , but for the act committed.
The Chairman : Thank you very much for your presentation.
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