www.shuiyinlo.org/interview.asp -
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Published on: 1/12/2008
Last Visited: 1/12/2008
PInterview with John Collins
Draft of October 26, 1998 Introduction On September 24, 1998, I spoke by phone with John Collins, founder of American Technologies Group and still its principal shareholder.Mr. Collins was very forthright in answering my questions and explaining his views on a variety of topics related to ATG.Our conversation lasted more than 2 hours, and I took detailed notes.We agreed that the discussion would be "on the record".Mr. Collins followed up by mailing me some materials on the subject of IE crystals.We had an exchange of email, and another 1.5 hour conversation on October 22.I thank Mr. Collins for agreeing to be interviewed, and for reviewing two earlier drafts of this report at my request, to ensure that I portrayed his views accurately.Perhaps the most controversial question raised on my ATG web site is the relationship of the company to the Church of Scientology.This is discussed in some detail below, but I would like to state here that I have no evidence that ATG is under the influence of the Church of Scientology the way TradeNet was.According to Mr. Collins, ATG was never a member of WISE (World Institute of Scientology Enterprises), and does not use Scientology "management tech".Based on the information Mr. Collins provided, I believe that no current members of ATG's board and none of ATG's current officers (Vice President or higher) are members of the cult.As of September 1998, three lower-level employees are known to be members, out of 55 employees total.Scientology does play a part in ATG's history, as you will see.Mr. John Collins objects to being asked what his religious beliefs are; he has made it clear that he was answering my questions on this subject only to demonstrate that I was being given wrong information.He also asked me to include an exact quote from him, which I have agreed to do: While it is true that I was not a member of the Church of Scientology, while at ATG I had no concern about a person's religious beliefs, their race, colour or sexual inclination.
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John Collins.The information below is mainly a reorganized presentation of the content of tbe initial interview and subsequent email exchanges.In other words, it reports Mr. Collins' point of view, with commentary and additions from me.I am not able to verify the accuracy of all of the statements made here, since I don't have access to all the persons and confidential documents at Mr. Collins' disposal.However, I have no reason to disbelieve Mr. Collins on any of the points covered, except with regard to the relationship between ATG and the Oregon Attorney General's office, which I will discuss below. -- Dave Touretzky
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ATG founder John Collins, chief scientist Dr. Shui-Yin Lo, and David Gann, former Director of Marketing and Public Relations, and former member of the board of directors.
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Collins got ATG started on its new course by purchasing technologies from Bob Carroll.
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As part of the deal where ATG acquired BWN's technologies, Collins was also asked to take over the BASER, which he agreed to do.Lo, who was not a Scientologist, joined ATG as its Director of Research and Development.Lo then invented IE crystals, which have become a key "technology" for the company.Collins describes Lo as "brilliant".At one point in the early days of ATG, several employees tried to interest Collins in Scientology "management technology".But when Collins wasn't interested in pursuing that, the matter was dropped.
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According to Collins, TradeNet had been distributing a Japanese laundry disk containing ceramic and metal components that supposedly altered the physical properties of water, making detergent unnecessary.
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What Aqueous Labs was actually selling was ordinary water with blue dye. (Collins says Quinn was pulling this scam with 5-6 different companies, marketing competing laundry products, and that Quinn was eventually fined in Nevada.) Attorneys General in several states began investigating TradeNet for consumer fraud.
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At the time, the Oregon fraud investigation was already under way, but Collins says ATG was not aware of that, and would not have begun a relationship with TradeNet if they'd known about it.He adds that Oregon was only one of the states investigating TradeNet for fraud; eventually, so were Utah, Michigan, California, Florida, and Nevada.
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In an interview in the Oregon Statesman Journal published on May 10, 1997, Collins denounced the Laundry Solution as "an absolute scam".He also announced in that interview that ATG was developing a replacement laundry ball for TradeNet that would be used in conjunction with an enzyme-based detergent.The article reported Collins promising that the new product wouldn't be released without scientific peer review.But in a fax sent to me on October 22, 1998, Collins explained that what he meant by this was peer review of the basic IE crystal research ATG was doing.
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Collins says it was only about 30,000 shares, not a significant stake.After Collins was quoted in the Statesman Journal, the Oregon Attorney General's office contacted ATG.
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Collins says TradeNet wanted a globe-type product, so they gave them a globe, but ATG insisted that it be marketed only in conjunction with the IE-based detergent, described somewhat misleadingly as a "booster" solution.Even if IE crystals do exist, and can reduce the surface tension of water, it makes no sense to think that they will work their magic when encased inside a plastic globe where they can have no contact with the laundry water.ATG was relying on the IE crystals added to the detergent to do that.In response to a query from Collins, another person at ATG explained that "the IE crystals inside the globe were there at TradeNet's request to sustain the heritage of their product."Nonetheless, Collins claims ATG's tests showed the crystals inside the globe did have an effect on laundry water.He also says that independent labs confirmed that the Super Globe reduced the surface tension of water.
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